I copied this article from MSN home in their lifestyle section. They very often have articles that say a lot about our culture today and how we relate to eachother, marriage, sex differences, children and family life. Today's topic? Family size. Needless to say I have a lot to say about this but for now I'm just posting the article and would like to see your comments...



When is a Big Family Too Big?


Whoopi Goldberg, Lily Tomlin, others join the debate.
wowOwow.com is a party ... disguised as a website. Created, run and written by 16 independent-minded women -- including Candice Bergen, Liz Smith, Whoopi Goldberg, Peggy Noonan, Lesley Stahl and more -- who have been talking to each other for decades. They now want you to join the conversation.

Angelina Jolie recently gave birth to twins, and she and Brad Pitt already have four other children. While many argue one-half a dozen children is more than a handful, one American family would say six is not enough.

If you haven't heard their story yet: meet the Duggars. The family recently was 'grateful' to announce they are expecting their 18th child in January 2009. What are your thoughts on this? Is there a specific number that crosses the line from happy family to unhealthy nightmare? Or, is it to each their own and none of our business?

Whoopi Goldberg: I think it's to each their own and none of our business. If people want to have 30 kids and can afford it, it's none of our business. Some people are very wealthy, only have one child and that's too much for them. Some people have 18 children and they have it together. Who is to judge?
Liz Smith: Doesn't the number of children a family chooses to have fall under the "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" clause? Isn't it a private matter, so long as a family can cope, care for and control in a healthy manner? I wouldn't think of interfering with this important liberty, though I may have a personal point of view in that I doubt that 18 children are financially or emotionally feasible. And I am gung ho, personally, for Planned Parenthood and serious birth control. I don't see these as religious or spiritual matters, but as important practicality and welfare issues.
As for Brad & Angelina -- they are a dazzling exception in their adopting and birthing lots of diverse children "act." They can afford it, God knows, and their multi-national family is an inspiration. Their money to charity is also a great lesson. But they hardly count in the realistic scheme of things.My only caveat would be -- when do Mommy and Daddy know there are too many kids for them to pay acute emotional attention to?
Also, I have never understood why nations want to keep the birth rate booming when the world is about to run out of food, water and sustainable climate. But they seem to want to. Natural disasters, wars and pandemics, however, do keep decimating populations and maybe in that horrible way, nature does take care of itself.
It just seems to me the ultimate responsibility of adults is to know, realize and make certain that they have a shot at really taking care of the number of children they bring into the world -- and, to take some charitable responsibility for the huge numbers of children brought into that same world by other irresponsible people. We need to be worrying everyday about those needy little souls.
Joan Ganz Cooney: There's nothing in the Western world that can be done to stop a family from having 18 children, or 10, or 5, or none. What alarms me is the much larger and more serious question of how large a population the earth can really support. For sure it cannot support a much larger population without straining the world's resources to the breaking point. We simply don't have enough water, food, energy and land to handle many more people without irrevocably harming the environment. Humans are taking over lands that used to feed animals in the wild and the population situation in Africa and other places is a terrible threat to the survival of many species. But we humans don't seem to care about such matters so it's on to having as many children as each family wants.
Jane Wagner: When is a big family too big? "When it's dysfunctional."
Lily Tomlin: I've seen it written in information about overpopulation that "People are a good thing. Overpopulation isn't."
Forget individual families. The human family is too big and getting bigger. There are too many of us humans on our planet and, unfortunately, even individually we are growing bigger. And the bigger the number and size, the more resources used and the more waste produced. We're going to have to start polluting Mars or maybe shoot the waste into the sun and vaporize it. (Is that feasible? I may have just solved all our recycling challenges!)
There are too many of our family members already living lives of bare substance. We need a global effort to reduce population and to develop sustainable energy sources. The future of any human family depends on it. Maybe.
Sheila Nevins: Children are necessary to the perpetuation of the species. Not as trinkets and narcissistic expressions of self. During the early formation of America, children were needed to work in the fields, factories, and homes since the early death rate was high and large families would be decreased by natural attrition. In third world countries this may still be true. However in highly industrialized countries that have increasing survival rates, overpopulation is a serious issue and must be seen in an "Alive" scenario in light of scarcity of resources. The human species is consuming natural resources to the detriment of their very being. The fundamentalist religions' ban on birth control is unconscionable. The one-child policy in China brutally limits individual behavior.
Thus the answers to population control fall back on individual responsibility to an over-production of the species. It is hard to see Mother Earth as a force to be reckoned with in daily living, as a living breathing endangered entity. Yet until we see the planet's dire situation as individual responsibility -- starvation, drought, and ultimate extinction seem inevitable as a result of overpopulation.
(In school, my zoology teacher, James Schooley, used to end every lecture with the word 'Maybe'. I've always thought it was a smart thing to do when it comes to life.)
Mary Wells: The media suggests that people are in pain from what the shortages of resources do to them personally. But different countries have different awareness's and attitudes and there are enlightened people in all countries. But we are running out of everything partly because we heedlessly build more golf courses and swimming pools than necessary, dirty our waters with just about everything, cut down productive trees without anything but selfish or commercial thought, ignore the environment of most animals and care little about their lives. The polar bear and the Orca whale are top of the line in the animal food chain and they are seriously endangered – we tend to think those animals are cute and want them to survive but seldom really think about what they do to balance world resources. We don't care enough. We aren't taught to care enough and we don't teach our children to care enough. So the growth of the number of humans on earth is much greater than most of us focus on and the impact on resources has become misunderstood and a bore to people. I have a friend who will tell us what she and the groups she works with are doing about the essential and practical goal of moving to live on the moon in 20 to 40 years or less. And then on to other planets. They believe earth is "over." They think it can not handle the vast number of people like us projected to populate earth in 10 years let alone 20 because of growing families. They have been working on a planet world for us to live on for a long time and it will require much more focus from us, much less self interest, but will be a much healthier place to live.
So as much I sympathize with people wanting children I think – for children's sake – the time has come to put the limitations of our earth ahead of anything else and to wake up and join in the movements that are growing to learn how to live a new wide-awake way in a new environment aware that a lot of the disappearing earth wealth is disappearing because of each one of us. We could start with smaller families needing less of the earth's resources. There are so many references to God's displeasure with selfishness in the Bible – whatever God turns out to be – we should all be able to show a list of our unselfish choices that saved humans, animals and life of all kinds – and in this world at this time large families are selfish choices that are everybody's business and everybody's problem.
Related: New MSN-Zogby poll reveals people's feelings on big families (including Brangelina's)

Double 'R' Double 'S' - The Maturity Mantra

RR and SS - What exactly are they?

Well in our home they are the maturity mantra. One thing I've learned as a parent is that kids like lessons that are packaged well. What I mean by that is they will more readily retain what I'm trying to drive home be it a virtue, a skill, or a new chore if I package it in a simple clever way that gets their attention and helps them remember. We have a lot of "sayings" around here. This household definitely has a culture and a language all its own. I firmly believe ALL homes should develop a culture and language for their kids to hold onto and to reference. It seems to me that this kind of thing makes my kids feel very grounded and very secure in their beliefs. The more we drive home these family mantras the more they just become a natural part of my kids' thinking.

A more recent mantra development came about when both my 2 older girls were starting to show a real interest in becoming "mature" They like the sound of that word. We got into a discussion about what appeals to them about "growing up" and "being mature". I LOVE these types of conversations with my kids! I LIVE for this stuff!! Any how it was obvious to me that they needed a better and deeper understanding of what it REALLY means to be a mature person. In order to grow into the young ladies they so strongly desire to become they need to know how to get from point A (a child) to point B (a mature young lady). That's where "double r double s " comes into play.

Respect

Responsibility

Self-Control (or Self-Mastery)

Sacrifice

These four things are all required if one is to grow and become a mature person. I reminded them that a larger body and bigger shoes do not qualify boys and girls for mature adulthood. Rather these four things are the qualifiers. So it is in fact true that the more they develop RR and SS they can in fact become at the ages of 10 and 8 more "mature" than many 40 or 50 year olds out there!!! They LOVED the sound of that!!! So that's a great incentive for them.

We of course discussed each 'R' and each 'S' in great detail. I am sure to insert it DAILY into our lives as a family. "That was very double 'r' double 's' of you Morgan." "Mary Grace you are doing such a great job of sacrificing right now - you sure are becoming more and more mature." They just love to see the real connection between their development of these 4 things and my reminding them of their growth and their getting closer and closer to becoming a WOMAN. That's just magical for an 8 or 10 year old to think about. They feel it intensely when they fail as well. "Are you being responsible? - that seems quite childish doesn't it?" etc etc

In this day in age kids grow up in so many artificial ways and think they're "grown up". In fact many adults seem to miss the boat entirely when it comes to being a REAL grown up. We focus far too much attention on sexuality and clothing and academic and athletic ability. We measure our shoe sizes, our ACT and SAT scores, and our bank accounts, but we've completely forgotten about the CHARACTER of a person and how one "measures up" in the areas of RR and SS. If my children can hang onto these lessons and take something away from them I'll be a happy happy mother indeed.

Jesus help me to reinforce all the mantras I come up with by using my own example as this is the best "tool" I have in shaping my kids.

You Get What You Pay For...do you really?

Today was the first all school mass at my kiddos' school. Mass was nice. I sat in the cy room with Chris and Monica and felt oddly lacking in children. I actually was able to focus on the mass in between the moments of putting Monica in the corner for time out due to "un-lady-like" behavior.
Following mass many of the moms stay in the Narthex to visit and to see their children walk out and give them a hug or a wave. A young girl (7th grade or so) paused after exiting and looked a little confused as to where she should go next as she was heading up the single file line of her fellow classmates out the doors. I could read her face "should I go on ahead? shouldn't I wait for my teacher?" she looked left and right. A harsh and bitterly sarcastic voice rang out from behind the line "Let's go. Oh I should have put someone at the head of the line who knows what the heck they are doing. So-in-so take the lead since you know what you're doing." It was shockingly cruel and demeaning to the innocent little girl who was merely looking for an order or a directive from an adult. THAT is a virtue you don't see in kids today too often. Most brats I know are more than ready to "take the lead" in every and any circumstance and see adults as merely obstacles to their own "right" to independence!! (come to find out this girl is a brand new student and this was her first EVER school mass)
That teacher certainly owes that girl an apology. The other moms and I commented on it and one mom had enough sense to take our principal aside and inform her of the rude careless behavior of one of her STAFF. Sadly, the damage is done. Truly the state of Catholic schools today is reflected in this one instance very well indeed. If one is seeking solace from the unkindness and shelter from the worldliness of public schools they will be hard pressed to find it in Catholic schools. The only comfort I take in shelling out the BIG BUCKS to send our kiddos to Catholic school is that they are FREE to talk about Jesus and their faith in Him and that they are FREE to pray when and where they'd like and they are in an environment that affords me the FREEDOM to demand or should I say request adherence to Catholic doctrine and teaching being it is a "catholic" school you know. This all comes with a caveat though and it is this - although your kids are FREE to be Catholic they won't be sheltered from comments such as "you're way too Catholic" and other such world good - religious weirdos bad, type discriminatory teasing.
Mom being a squeaky wheel and dad being quite the zealous convert that he is doesn't score our kiddos any brownie points either. So do you get what you pay for? Well yes and no. You get a watered down version of what you'd like to have but at least it's not the poison you might be forced to drink elsewhere. No much of a deal eh?

Delusions of Grandeur

Last night while watching the olympics Tim claimed "I could do that."


Enough said - let the uncontrollable laughter commence!

Irena Sendler, a Catholic hero - some one I didn't know who I should have known but am now grateful I do know!!

Modesty in the 21st Century

Charlie bit my finger - again !

Hahaha

One more reason NOT "to be done yet".......

The pure joy that a child experiences and inturn shares with their mommy and daddy is like nothing else in this world!

Give Me Your Eyes - Another TOB theme song?

A while back I posted about a song called "We Need Each Other" by Sanctus Real. It always makes me think of certain TOB concepts.
Recently I've come across this song "Give Me Your Eyes". It also makes me think of TOB in a nutshell. For me at least.

If I had to sum up TOB and everything I've learned by studying it I would say this:

TOB is seeing yourself, and others with God's eyes.

Once you see your own body, all bodies, and everything about us as God's most special creation from the perspective of His original intent - the beauty is restored.
I truly see people differently than I ever have before. What a grace from God. I pray daily to see as He sees and to love as He loves. Little by little I plod along. Every glimpse I get of the true beauty of the human person made in God's image is a mini revelation I treasure!!!

This song applies well I think.

Just thinking about babies

One of my favorite bloggers - Danielle Bean writes...
Over the years, I've done my fair share of staring in disbelief at tiny pink lines in the bathroom. Once, a few years ago, when I told a friend of a new and unplanned pregnancy and expressed to her my ambivalent feelings, her response to me was a simple, joyful exclamation:
"God must love you so much!"
Her words startled me. Not only because most people's reactions to my latest news had been somewhat less than joyful, but also because of how true I knew those words were, deep down inside, in spite of my doubts and fears.
When God gives us babies, planned or unplanned, He gives us innumerable physical, emotional, and spiritual challenges. But He also gives us a glimpse of Himself. It's God's face we see in a helpless baby's smile. It's God's voice we hear in their needy cries, and it's God's enormous love we feel wrapped around us when we nurture them within us, when we hold their infant bodies, when we accept them as He sends them, whether it was part of "our plan" or not.

This comes from an article she wrote over at Inside Catholic. I couldn't agree more. Often I am amazed by people's lack of joy at the good news of a new life. Even when I have felt overwhelmed and nervous about a pregnancy. The thought of a completely original and totally unique new little person made my fears fade and anticipation replaced my anxiety. We as a culture tend to focus so much on "ME" and how everything effects ME that we seem to miss the enormous awe inspiring beauty of a baby - another person - not ME - living in ME! WOW!! Just thinking of it gives me goosebumps!!!

Funny Stuff

This is the kind of funny stuff I love to read over at Notes from the Trenches. It's nice to know that there are other moms out there that use hyperbole to an extreme...for the sake of a good laugh of course!!

Read more and enjoy -

Or at the very least they will send you accessories to match your orange jumpsuit.
Me: My kids are driving my nuts today!Her: Join the club.Me: Was there some sort of edict that went out that us parents were not aware of that said, today is act like a little asshole day?Her: Yes that must be it.Me: You would not believe what my 7 yr old is doing… I swear he is begging me to strangle him.Her: I hear him. I will testify in court on your behalf.Me: You are such a great friend.Her: I’ll tell the judge. He was begging for it.Me: I love you.
*************Her (friend without a blog, yes they do exist. Like unicorns): So we were driving home from vacation and my son was throwing up the whole way.
Me: Oh yuck, we had that happen recently too. It was so horrible.Her: We kept having to pull over. Except at one point on the highway there was no shoulder and we had to give him a McDonald’s bag.Me: Ewwwwwwww. We luckily had beach buckets in the van.Her: It smelled so bad. And it was leaking. And the other kids were all complaining. So we threw it out the window.Me: I’m not laughing at you. I swear.Her: All the cars behind us were honking at us. Then they drove up and gave us the finger.Me: You polluter! Ruining our environment with your breeding and littering!Her: I like to think Mother Earth would forgive me. Being a Mother and all.
******
Update: Geez people, you have weak stomachs. It’s not like a photographed the meal INSIDE a McDonald’s bag. That would be gross. Funny, but gross.
But I get the hint, I have removed the photo and link. I’ll put them back up in a different post. Away from the vomit story.
Posted by Chris @ 8:33 am 25 Comments

Well as I write this Kelly, Martin and the kids are gone. They are still on American soil but they're on east coast soil and that may as well be another country. They'll finish their visit with Martin's family in Virginia and then they'll head back to Germany.

It's way too quiet around here and that's saying something considering I have five kids of my own. It's true though. Last night as Tim and I laid in bed together I missed the chitter chatter of kids up way past their bedtime and asking for just one more drink of water. I missed sitting on the couch and eating junk as we watch late night re-runs of Seinfeld - Kelly, Martin, Tim and I. I miss waking up to all those faces. I miss laughing together and arguing together or should I say with one another. But most of all I miss my 2 favorite "personal baby holders". Need to go to the bathroom? No need to balance baby on your lap - just give him to the "baby holder". Need to slice an apple for a whiny toddler? No need to choose between baby crying or toddler whining. Baby will be very happy on the "holder's" hip. Need to cook a dinner that consists of things that actually require cooking instead of just "warming through" or pouring into a bowl and adding milk? Peel, slice, stir that pot - "baby holder" will keep baby occupied until dinner's on the table! Kelly and Martin thanks for all the baby holding you both did - I'll have to adjust now. Either I adjust or it's back to my bathroom balancing, "just eat the apple whole damn it!!", cereal for dinner days. I think mom's right Chris is gonna have to get used to that playpen like it or not...

On a serious note - Tim and I have few friends. Yes I know that's no real newsflash. But because of this we truly relish our time with kelly and martin. There's nothing better than spending time with people who know just how bad you can look in the morning, just how crabby you can be due to lack of sleep, and still love you anyway! There's no "fake" or even "cleaning up of the act" 'round here when Kel and martin come. It's just plain ol' Kris and Tim and the kids - come to think of it - maybe that's why we have so few friends!! Yikes!!

Tim's already looked into the cost of airfare for next year if we go to Germany to vist. $8400. I wish there was a job which paid me to blab about religion and politics and parenting. I've yet to write the book that Tim tells me will allow him to enter an early retirement. My problem is I have LOTS to say about LOTS of things but NO IDEA how to organize any of my b.s. into a book format!! Kelly suggested I sit down with someone to interview/ask questions of me - such a nice big sister - she thinks better of her little sister than she should! I miss you Kel!

Mom Needs Prayer

Kristine over at The Fire Within is dealing with PPD following the birth of her first child little Avila. She writes about her experience and uses the words of saint Terese of Avila as an encouragement:
"Let nothing disturb you,
Let nothing frighten you,
All things are passing:
God never changes.
Patience obtains all things.
He who has God
Finds he lacks nothing;
God alone suffices."
Although I have never been diagnosed with PPD myself I have had times of deep depression which I had to reconcile with my life's duties as wife and mother. That is the hardest part. We can not just turn inward and work on healing the depression as one might who hasn't the responsibilities of motherhood. Yet, I have found that those very responsibilities are what brought me out of the depression. Seeking out the joy in motherhood can be a real task at times. when babies are fussy and sleep is fleeting and older kids are crabby and demanding. At times just the sight of a pile of laundry could move me to tears. But through prayer in those darkest moments I have grown so much closer to Jesus. He has been able to redirect my eyes from the piles of things to be cleaned to the pictures drawn for me and the bouquet of dandelions picked for me. Through prayer I have been able to let go of wanting to control and change those things that bring me down and weigh on me like a led weight around my neck. When I am brought low I have learned not to struggle so much. I just lay there quietly and ask Jesus to keep me company instead. Loneliness is a big part of depression. Feeling trapped in that loneliness is the worst. The great thing is that we are NOT alone. Jesus is right there beside us. This truth has made it possible for me to rise up out of many a depression. The best thing about "rising up and walking" is that you are a changed person. Every time I have fallen into a depression which is more often than I'd like to admit. I have been called by Jesus to "get up and walk" and I have left so much dead weight behind me.
My hope for Kristine is that she will be able to persevere and hold onto to Jesus very tightly in this time. It is so difficult to relax under the weight of many burdens and anxieties. We want to break free and just be "the same ol' girl we've always been" again. But Jesus doesn't want us to be the same ol' girl he wants to make us better, more perfect. I will keep Kristine and Avila and Mike in my prayers. I KNOW that Jesus has BIG plans for them! May Jesus hold Kristine in a tender embrace and may she take great comfort in the sound of His sacred heartbeat.

More at the Lake

While up in Michigan we attended mass. The priest gave a great homily. I took away a lot from that mass and I decided to summarize it simply in my mind as this: "Only God knows what is necessary for my own salvation." I've decided that this is the BEST possible response I can and will ever give to the often heard "So are you done yet? " and "You're not having any more are you?" I've often struggled to put my thoughts on those questions into a very simple succinct and KIND sentence or two. I think saying "Well Bob, only God knows what's necessary for my salvation." Is just about the most perfect answer ever. That statement also is a great one for me to use as a mantra for my own contemplation. When things seem difficult and or painful and I am so confused as to how this or that could possibly be of use or benefit to my life I will try to speak those words right into my own heart. They will give me peace knowing that God has a plan and I don't have to know all its details I just have to know that it will used some how for my own good...

Family Trip to Sister Lakes MI

Dad rented us all a big (it had to be to sleep 14) house on Round Lake in Michigan. We were right on the beach and there was plenty of clean sand (as clean as sand can be) and the water was warm. The first 2 days were overcast but then the weather was perfect. Sunny but NOT too hot. The kids swam and slid down the slide and played in the sand. We were the hot spot for the duck to come for a free meal (hot dog buns and such) and everybody fished a little too off the end of the pier. The only thing Tim and I wished for was a paddle boat so we could cruise around the lake and be nosy about the other homes there. That would have been a nice little escape for us. Although I would have liked a few quiet moments alone with Tim, it was so great to see him be able to play with our kiddos. He works so hard and so much that he often gets only the chance to be "bad cop" when he walks in the door, trying to back me up and get all our ducks in a row for the night. The kids love to play with dad cause dad is ALWAYS more fun than mom - especially when there's water involved.
We all ate very well. Every meal was an event in itself. One night Tim and dad made ribs and once again they were great! You mustn't tell them how good they are though because they've already got big heads over their rib success. They oo and ah with delight as they eat and congratulate one another during the meal. Geez guys we said they were good - enough already!
We're back home now and it's back to reality. Laundry for me. Work for Tim. It stinks!! I love having Tim with me 24 - 7. We like to pal around together and it seems that the more we do the funnier we think we are. We get to giggling at eachother's comments so much that we start to annoy my family. Kelly at one point told us to be quiet so she could hear the program we were gleefully mocking together! Ah to be married to your best friend - that's a joy! Thank you Jesus.

Kelly and Martin Are Here!

Kelly and Martin and the kids of course are all here. Well actually they've been here a while now...with all the fun (and a lot of meal making) I haven't been online at all.

It is so nice to have them here. When we get together which is only once a year it's as if no time has passed. We all fall into our relaxed operating modes and just tease, laugh, argue, make -up as if we're together all the time. Sure we're a "dysfunctional family" as they like to call it. But whose isn't?! At the end of the day we love each other and I can always count on my big sis Kelly to be the kind and thoughtful woman I love! She can always count on me to be the loud-mouthed lil' sis she's learned to tolerate!! (Hee hee hee)

Our kids love each other too and that makes me feel so good. They really enjoy being together and it'll be sad to see them go.

FedEx Kinkos: The Office Meeting Commercial

"Et tu?" - The diary of a former atheist

"Et tu?" - The diary of a former atheist: "Prayer is always an act of humility, and even more so in a situation like ours yesterday. Praying together forced us to unite as Christians and daughters of God, and to share in our mutual need of his mercy. It made us remember that that situation was so much bigger than our different views on diapers or reward systems or the origin of that brown stain in front of the couch. Amidst our differences, it reminded us of something on which we were in agreement: that this situation was nothing more or less than an opportunity to love and serve God; and that the best way to do that would be to love and serve one another."

I've Been Meaning to Share This...May Crowning

Mary got to wear her first communion dress for the school's May Crowning mass. She saw us - Collin, Monica, and Chris and me and worried that Collin would do something...and so he did!! He ran to hug her and I struggled to reign him in while holding Chris on my hip...Ah - little brothers...